[THS] DiCaprio Interview - You Have Been Warned

[Peter Webster]

THE ECOLOGIST
September 2007

You Have Been Warned

Leonardo DiCaprio's new film, The 11th Hour, takes the debate about 
global warming into a whole new orbit. The way to stop climate 
change, says the superstar environmentalist, is through social and 
political change.

He speaks exclusively to Zac Goldsmith, Ecologist Editor

Leonardo DiCaprio is a rare phenomenon. He's certainly not the only 
celebrity trying to raise awareness of environmental issues. But 
whereas for so many celebrities, charity work is an add-on, an 
obligatory social tax they feel they must pay tc justify public 
admiration, for DiCaprio it is a thread that runs through everything 
he does. He's championed some of America's most effective 
environmental organisations, such as the Natural Resources Defence 
Council and Global Green and has led calls for the expulsion of oil 
money from US politics. His new film The 11th Hour is a very personal 
project where the two parts of his life merge.
    Hot on the heels of Al Gore's An Inconvenient Truth, The 11th 
Hour is very much the sequel and to be amongst the first to view it - 
even before it debuted at Cannes - was a privilege.
    I expected something impressive. I expected something profound 
and depressing - a catalogue of human errors and a stark warning. But 
The 11th Hour takes the debate about the environment to a whole new 
level. It places the problems we're now mostly aware of in the 
context of something bigger, describing climate change, oceanic dead 
zones, soil erosion, the destruction of the world's forests and the 
spread of disease in the context of system failure. It is shockingly 
ambitious, and it works.
    Arranging the interview was a logistical nightmare but eventually 
we settled on a date coinciding with the Cannes Film Festival. I 
wasn't planning to stay long in France, so besides my papers and 
computer I arrived relatively unburdened by luggage. But I'd 
misjudged the nature of the festival. Wandering past trendy film 
crews, make-up artists and fashion journalists, down a beachfront 
path towards the 'interview tent', it occurred to me from the looks I 
was getting that perhaps I should have found an alternative to my 
accustomed winter tweed jacket and thick brown trousers.
    At least that's what I thought. In fact it was something else. 
What I hadn't fully realised    was that DiCaprio was doing only one 
UK interview to promote his new film - and he'd chosen to do it with 
the Ecologist. That's why the journalists were staring at me. And 
their distaste had less to do with my clothes than with sheer 
frustration and jealousy.
    Given that the Ecologist is dwarfed in terms of readership by so 
many of the nation's daily newspapers and glossies, this interview 
seemed an odd way to sell a mass-market product. Until you see the 
film. In a very real sense, it is the film the Ecologist would have 
made if that were our business.
    We met in a small tent overlooking a bay. DiCaprio, experienced 
at dealing with media intrusions, faced away from the sea and the 
swarms of paparazzi-filled boats floating in the harbour. Sitting 
next to him was the environmental philosopher Professor David . Orr, 
advisor to DiCaprio and his co-producers during the making of the film.
    Was the intention from the outset to make a follow-up to Gore's film?
    'We worked on The 11th Hour for about three years,' says 
DiCaprio, 'so there was a lot of overlap. I've been an 
environmentalist for 10 years or so and I've never seen anything have 
the kind of immediate impact that An Inconvenient Truth had. People 
have always felt that the issue is way too big for them, too much for 
them to deal with. But his film hit people on a deep, emotional 
level. It also triggered a wider media discussion of the issues. It's 
been a tremendous boost for the environmental movement.
    'The truth of the matter is, Gore's film was a launching platform 
for this one. Our job would
have been harder if his film hadn't come out and moved public opinion 
in the way that it did. But our movie goes into the solutions more 
deeply, not just focusing on technology but on how we need to 
transform as a culture as well. It describes the need for a much 
deeper level of environmental awareness throughout the world.'
    Although he is a megastar, and has been centre stage for most of 
his life, DiCaprio doesn't dominate this film. Instead, the body of 
the message is delivered by a line-up of impressive experts, many of 
whom are longtime Ecologist contributors - people who would not 
normally command such a sustained slice of the spotlight.
    'The position I really wanted to take in the movie was that of a 
concerned citizen asking questions, and leaving the answers to the 
scientists and experts - people who are at the forefront of the 
environmental movement,' DiCaprio explains. 'I wanted to give them 
free rein to talk about the issues they care about, issues they are 
passionate about, without having to start at the beginning, without 
having to argue about the science.'
    Knowing the way the movie business works, it is hard to imagine a 
major film company endorsing such misuse of a valuable resource like 
DiCaprio. In fact, the project was begun long before distribution of 
the film fell under the auspices of Warner Independent Pictures and 
Warner Pictures International.
    'We wanted it to be a genuinely home-made movie. We wanted to do 
it privately. We didn't want to attach ourselves to any studio or 
network beforehand. We didn't want to have any political or corporate 
agenda there whatsoever. We wanted to let these people know they 
could speak absolutely freely.'
    The film is very much DiCaprio's personal project - funded by him 
and produced by a company he set up with friends, Leila 
Conners-Peterson and Nadia Connors. You get the impression the team 
didn't really know what to expect when the idea was first mooted. 
Leila admits, when I see her later, that what started out as a film 
about climate change, became 'a human extinction story'. Her sister 
Nadia adds: 'The overriding message is that humans are having a 
tremendous impact on the world. What's happening to our soils, our 
air, our water are all symptoms of a much deeper cultural problem.'
    Al Gore's film catapulted climate change onto the agenda in a way 
that few could have predicted. The film was - and remains - a huge 
hit. But one of the reasons it has been so popular is that its 
message is relatively straightforward. It doesn't attempt to explore 
the root causes or solutions - at least not in any great depth. 
Instead it sets itself the task of alerting the masses to a threat 
that for too long has been overlooked. The 11th Hour is more 
ambitious in its scope and in i   its language.
    In it Leonardo talks about a 'convergence of crises' facing the 
planet and its people and lays our current situation starkly on the line:
    'We find ourselves on the brink. It's clear humans have had a 
devastating impact on our planet's ecological web of life. Because 
we've waited, because we've turned our backs on nature's warning 
signs and because our political and corporate leaders have 
consistently ignored the overwhelming scientific evidence, the 
challenges we face are that much more difficult. We are in the 
environmental age whether we like it or not. So, what does the future 
look like? Will our pivotal generation create a sustainable world in time?'
    Paul Hawken, author and green entrepreneur, continues the 
narration: 'The problem that confronts us is that every living system 
in the biosphere is in decline and the rate of decline is 
accelerating. There isn't one peer-reviewed scientific article that's 
been published in the last 20 years that contradicts that statement.'
    It is startling stuff and my question to DiCaprio was simple: 
does he believe there is a mass market for this kind of film?
    'Honestly, I don't know how people will react to it,' he says. 
'The intention was simply to tell the truth. To let these people talk 
about the real issues. I want people to be transformed and scared 
about the ramifications of what could happen in the future - and 
hopefully to walk away from this movie feeling energised and wanting 
to do something about it. It's true that a lot of what it says - much 
of the vision - is complicated. But that's unavoidable. These are not 
issues that you can spoon-feed to people pre-digested like baby food.'
    It is, though, a form of shock therapy, isn't it? An ambush, even?
    'Look back 35 years,' says David Orr, 'to the release of Rachel 
Carson's book Silent Spring, or Teddy Goldsmith's Blueprint for 
Survival -which had a big impact on me. We haven't seen a whole lot 
of action since then. But all that time there has been a movement 
building. It's taken its time, but then so did the Enlightenment. 
Well, I think it's reached a tipping point. As a result of Rachel 
Carson, Teddy Goldsmith, Al Gore - whose ideas are echoed by the 
people who appear in this film -I think the world is ready for leadership.'
    One of the key questions posed by The 11th Hour is where that 
leadership is coming from. In 2000, a 25-year-old DiCaprio famously 
interviewed the then-President Bill Clinton. The interview - for an 
ABC news special about Earth Day, an event for which DiCaprio was 
Chairperson - enraged more-seasoned political reporters who were 
denied access to the President. At the time of the interview, 
DiCaprio appeared to admire Clinton's willingness to acknowledge the 
reality of climate change, both personally and politically. But does 
he still have any faith in US politics to provide that leadership?
    'At the time of that interview, the debate about global warming 
was about whether or not it would happen - much like a debate on 
whether or not a meteor would hit our planet and we'd become extinct. 
That's all changed. Climate change has become a hot topic. But there 
is a danger in that. Heat fizzles. Right now it's the topic of the 
moment - so now, while the moment is right, all the people who've 
been working their entire lives on these issues have to galvanise and 
drive this into the political system.'
    He's right, of course; heat does fizzle. So how do we prevent 
that from happening?
    'Having closely followed the last election -where some of the 
topics at the forefront were things like gay marriage, or pro-choice 
- it seems to me that the environment, our planet, our future as a 
civilisation, needs to have at least as much air time as issues like 
that,' he laughs. 'That's what I am looking for. I think there is a 
greater level of awareness - more than ever before, in fact - and the 
next election will be key. But it's for the public to demand answers 
and action.'
    And will that happen?
    'I think it will. In 2004 I visited 14 or 15 states for John 
Kerry, because I respected his environmental policies. I felt he was 
our environmental choice as President. I went to all these colleges, 
and I spoke about environmental issues. I was talking about the 
future of our country, our economy - the future of the world. I 
wanted to galvanise the students and I think they were ready to hear 
that message. But the election ultimately became about a wide variety 
of issues that were far less important than the survival of the 
planet. So in a way this film is my action plan for the next election.'
    'Green' is likely to be a big issue in the 2008 US Presidential 
election - largely in response to George Bush's suicidal refusal to 
engage with environmental issues. But the depth of green thinking 
will likely be unimpressive. Even Al Gore tends to shy away from 
anything other than the business-as-usual solutions aimed at 
pacifying a public unwilling to change its lifestyle. Compare that to 
former World Bank economist Herman Daly's contribution to The 11th Hour.
    'The most basic thing to understand about our global economic 
system is that it's a subsystem. The larger system is the biosphere, 
and the subsystem is the economy. The problem, of course, is that our 
subsystem, the economy, is geared for growth; it's all set up to 
grow, to expand. Whereas the parent system doesn't grow; it remains 
the same size. So, as the economy grows, it displaces, it encroaches 
upon the biosphere, and this is the fundamental cost of economic 
growth. It's what you give up when you expand.'
    Try putting that kind of deep thinking into an election speech. 
And yet the challenge is fundamental. It's not just about cleaner 
cars or energy-efficient lightbulbs. It's about changing the DNA of 
our businesses, about writing the environment into our economy.
    'We can make it hard or we can make it easy,' David Orr says. 
'The easy step is to price carbon into the economic system. Carbon 
has to have a price. You cannot allow someone, given what we know, to 
emit carbon for free. It's not a one-size-fits-all solution, but when 
you price carbon, you force a shift to green energy, to solar, to 
efficiency and away from    things like coal. We're heading to a 
world where a lot of activity is going to be much more local.'
    I ask DiCaprio if he thinks of himself as a localist. 'It's hard 
to be a localist in my business,' he laughs. 'But in terms of where I 
think we should be going and what we should be doing I have to point 
you back to the film. I'm not an expert. That's why I made this film. 
I invited people whom I personally rate, people whose vision I 
endorse, to tell the story. They're better placed to say where we 
should be going than I am. But I advocate their position. I support 
it. And I am promoting it.'
    Given the film's stark warning to viewers about the consequences 
of not embracing personal and political action for change, I wondered 
if making this film left him with a vision of the future -say 30 
years hence - and if so, is it a pessimistic view or an optimistic one?
    'No matter how upbeat you try to be, you have to be honest and 
admit that this stuff is discouraging. We face a very bleak future, 
and to avoid it we need dramatic change worldwide. It needs to go way 
beyond politics or religion. It's scary and it's daunting. But it is 
also our obligation to make whatever efforts are required. Am I 
optimistic or pessimistic? I guess I'd have to agree with what Paul 
Hawken says in the film: when you look at the data, it's hard not to 
be depressed, but when you look at people, think about things like 
their resilience and creativity and determination, there is hope.
    'If we look back at this period of time and ask ourselves "What 
did I do?", I think we're all going to have to take stock of where we 
were personally responsible. The fact is, we know the solutions 
exist. The science, the technology is there. Visionary people have 
already explored and set up new ways of organising ourselves and our 
communities and new ways to do business. It's all readily available 
to us, to government, to corporations. We need to push hard to make 
sure this change becomes government policy. That's the biggest challenge.'
    I wonder how he will react when the central message of The 11th 
Hour - the basis on which it has been constructed - is challenged by 
vested interests? And is he suspicious of the current appetite among 
big businesses for green thinking?
    DiCaprio ignores my question. 'What was the name of that 
documentary shown in the UK? The Great Global Warming Swindle? Talk 
about severing the issue. It only represented a tiny proportion of 
scientists, and it completely avoided the other issues - pollution, 
asthma among children, the economy, dependence on foreign oil. None 
of these issues came into it.'
    David Orr, who has argued for, amongst other things, a new 
paradigm in business, takes up the thread.
    'We have the Climate Change Action Plan, the US Climate Alliance 
- it has 40 or 50 businesses signed up, including GM [General Motors] 
and other big companies. I don't think it's entirely cosmetic. 
WalMart is trying to look at its whole supply chain. Whatever we 
think of WalMart is another matter, but I think there is a shift 
happening. Businesses aren't of a mind yet - they're still trying to 
figure out what they want to be when they grow up. A big question is 
whether or not capitalism can be made green fast enough and in a way 
that is "adequate enough. The jury is still out on that. But I don't 
see an alternative.' So where's the resistance coming from? 'Some of 
it is bad habits,' says Orr. 'Some of it is the stranglehold of the 
wrong kind of imoney on the machinery of government. But more than 
that, we've never really calibrated the way we govern. We need a 
"Declaration of Independence" moment, where people sit down and work 
out what governance means, relative to the ecology of the planet. 
That's an issue on which left and right can come together. Thomas 
Jefferson said "no generation has a right to impose debt for future 
generations". Burke, who was on the Right, said exactly the same 
thing. Left or Right, we have a duty to protect the future, to be 
good trustees. Well what does that mean? It requires biological 
diversity. It requires climate stability, clean air, clean water.'
    In the midst of this heady stuff I suddenly become aware that, 
for some reason, the paparazzi are going wild in their boats. 
DiCaprio doesn't appear to notice. The reason, it transpires, is that 
the two Warner Brothers minders are on their way to end our 
discussion, and the photographers are no doubt anticipating a second 
or two of profile. Aware that our time is short, I ask DiCaprio how 
he will measure the film's success.
    'This film is the culmination of a lot of my efforts over the 
past three years. I guess I realised that I could do as many 
soundbites as I wanted, talking for the NRDC [National Resources 
Defense Council] or for Global Green about climate change. You know, 
"Here I am, Leonardo DiCaprio, the Hollywood actor, talking about 
CLIMATE CHANGE - again." But I can always be discredited for that. 
'To me - and this is why the film is so important - it allows me to 
do much more, to highlight these incredible people, and to give them 
an opportunity to speak out. I want it to have the same sort of 
effect that An Inconvenient Truth has had. Some of these concepts 
will be brought out in a media format - and the media will respond to 
these issues and talk about them on a worldwide platform. It's not 
just about the sheer numbers in the theatres. Hopefully these ideas, 
these concepts, will be discussed much more broadly than they have 
until now. Personally, I think if it's picked up at all by Fox News, 
it will have been a success!'
    Modesty aside, the environmentalist in DiCaprio clearly hopes the 
film's message will hit home. 'If I can help bring information to 
people who might not otherwise get it, then that's great. I want to 
leave a better world to future generations.'
    As the minders hover ever-closer, I ask DiCaprio how important he 
thinks 'ecoliteracy' is these days and if he will persuade the 
company to offer free copies of his film to every school in the US 
and UK. He takes the bait. 'Honestly, it should be a core subject at 
all grade levels. Now that the film has been made we are in the 
process of developing a curriculum for schools, based on The 11th 
Hour. Can the Ecologist help in the UK?'
    'Ofcourse...,' I gulp.    .
    Later that day, I bumped into DiCaprio again. He had just faced a 
barrage of questions from the press following the premiere of the 
film. 'All they had wanted to know', he told me gloomily, 'was how I 
got to Cannes from America.'
    Not just for the sake of an Ecologist 'exclusive', his flight 
seems a small price to pay.

    The 11th Hour premiers in the US on August 17th. UK release dates 
are to be confirmed. Visit; www.11thhourfilm.com